Yet your post indicts the Spanish government broadly? Not that the Spanish are without criticism, but if Garzon is a bit of wild man that the Spanish Establishment distrust but don’t shackle, then I’m not sure your argument broadly hangs together…

And…. How is our Justice System working these days? The Bush 6 need to come up on charges in the U.S. They won’t. This Judge is doing the right thing.

I don’t take anything seriously…. Frankly, I couldn’t care who gets tortured or molested, so long as it’s not me or any of my friends or family. I just don’t like Alberto Gonzales and Co. and I hope they get deep fried. The means for getting there, don’t matter to me…..

It’s personal. If the Spaniards don’t get them, someone else will. In the meantime, I want to see them squirm like the miserable pathetic cowards they are.

Enough said….

Best regards,

Econolicious

The US signs international treaties. They are equivalent to laws passed by congress. We signed the Geneva Conventions, giving authority to ourselves and to other signatories to prosecute officials who violated the Convention Against Torture, provided that their own governments proved unwilling or incapable of doing so themselves.

That’s the only legitimate complaint against the Spanish prosecution of Bush administration officials that can be made: that it hasn’t been shown that our own government won’t prosecute them (though it is very likely the case).

Secondly, To argue that allies should stay out of each other’s business and let their justice systems function without interference demands that the US abide by the same rule. It doesn’t, it hasn’t, and it has no plans to. (Remember, the administration is still threatening the British government to compel Britain’s judges to suppress evidence of torture). Let’s stop doing that before we ask everyone else to.

“It should be clear, though, that grabbing John Yoo out of some French cafe and extraditing him is no less an act of war than shooting him in the halls of the Pentagon. ”

I just wanted to point out that the CIA (that’s us!) did exactly this to citizens in a variety of foreign countries, such as Canada and Italy (look up Maher Arar’s case). In fact, we not only extradited these people, but we subjected them to torture. If one of our allies grabbed John Yoo off our streets, we would be in no position to complain, much less declare war.

“……Similarly, it is ridiculous to prosecute someone for his acts in his capacity as an officer of another nation’s government…..”

Ronald Reagan, May 20, 1988, transmitting the Convention Against Torture to the Senate for ratification:

The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention. It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.

The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called “universal jurisdiction.” Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.

Convention Against Torture, signed and championed by Ronald Reagan, Article II/IV:

No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture. . . Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law.

Best regards,

Econolicious

Personally, I don’t care who prosecutes the above mentioned A-holes, so long as someone does. Torture is a crime, it is a felony here and in China, it is also morally reprehensible. I am for the prosecution and indictment of those who torture and those who collaborate in the practice of torture, regardless of it’s efficacy or punitive value. Those who practice torture and who advance a state policy of the practice are criminals that must be sought out, denounced and prosecuted.

Unemployment, drug trafficking, Basque separatists, etc., are not in the scope of this conversation. Don’t let yourself be distracted by the Spanish Lisp….

Best regards,

Econolicious

Anyway, I’d like to hear Judge Garzon’s theories on jurisdiction. I’m no lover of the Shrub administration, but I wonder how he’d like it if Judge Hartzer issued a warrant for the arrest of Mrs. Garzon on a suspicion of say, narcotics trafficking.